All liars are not created equal

Of course all politicians lie, but the truth is that some lie way more than others.  I’ve got my problems with media fact-checkers, but I suspect this chart of politicians ranked by lying from an NYT op-ed is roughly valid:

truth

Hard to not see a partisan division here.  I don’t think that Republican politicians are inherently more dishonest.  I think that the expectations of Republican voters are inherently more fanciful and you are not going to get anywhere as a Republican politican without going along with these fantasies on a regular basis.

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About Steve Greene
Professor of Political Science at NC State http://faculty.chass.ncsu.edu/shgreene

18 Responses to All liars are not created equal

  1. JonMotivates says:

    ROFLMAO….Yes, hard not to see the partisan divide between your HYSTERICALLY biased chart and reality.

    This chart actually gave me a great belly laugh, thank you.

    • Jon K says:

      Politifact has won the Pulitzer Prize you know….

      • JonMotivates says:

        The Pulitzer has as much meaning as the Nobel…you remember the Nobel, the one that awarded Obama the Nobel Peace Prize without him having done ANYTHING.

        Politifact is a joke. Even Obama’s claims such as, “If you like your insurance, you can keep it” and “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” were considered mostly true, when they should have been rated as complete BS because OBAMA KNEW HE WAS LYING WHEN HE SAID IT.

      • rgbact says:

        Ye, Run by a left wing newspaper, so not a shock they go hard after Republicans……which elite media, and Jon K, loves.

  2. Jon K says:

    I have never thought the Tampa Bay times has been known for their outspoken liberalism.
    But i am all for think and let think so feel free to believe whatever you wish.

    • rgbact says:

      Well, they are.Here’s the latest from them…..Marco Rubio say’s he saved taxpayers $2B on an ACA insurer bailout. politifcat calls it “mostly false”, even though its pretty damn true. In fact,many insurers are going under because of the bailout money they won’t be getting. I’ll bet they don’t think its false.

      I see three recent fact checks of Rubio….Zero for Hillary, Bernie, or O’Malley.

      • Jon K says:

        Rubio said, “Last year, I stopped an Obamacare bailout and saved taxpayers $2.5 billion.”

        He’s referring to a provision in the Affordable Care Act called risk corridors, which faced a $2.5 billion shortfall for 2014. Rubio, whose efforts to repeal risk corridors have so far failed, helped persuade Congress last year to prevent Health and Human Services from being able to cover the difference with money from its own budget.

        But experts said calling the program a bailout is not accurate. They also noted CMS has said they want the risk corridors to pay for themselves through fees from insurers.

        Most importantly, experts also said Rubio did not necessarily save that money in the long run. His best argument is he temporarily limited one way CMS could have tried to pay for insurance companies’ losses. The program has two more years to cover its expenses. If any bills are due after that time, CMS or Congress will have to find a way to pay them because they are obligated to do so.

        Rubio oversimplified a complex process that is still largely unresolved. We rate his statement Mostly False.

        You can not like Obamacare, but Rubio didn’t save anything, and risk corridors aren’t a bailout they are an important tool to help the marketplaces set correct prices in a marketplace that nobody knew what the correct prices would be. It is inaccurate to say what Rubio has been saying, and his efforts haven’t prevented anything, but have made it harder for companies that provide insurance and the government to get the marketplaces stabilized.

        I find the politifact analysis just about right.

        I support the ACA because I want everyone to have access to healthcare. I have a rare chronic neurological disorder (narcolepsy) that costs over $100,000 a year to treat. I didn’t do anything to get this disease, it’s just something that happened, and it could happen to anyone (similarly anyone could get cancer or something else that is very expensive to treat). Before Obamacare I had to buy insurance in the individual marketplace. The plans were almost worthless for a condition like mine. They had things like a 2,000 cap on name brand drugs. After that cap I owed 50% on all prescriptions after that. When my medicine costs 10,900 a month how exactly do you think I would be able to cover that? Do you think sick people, who have something happen to them completely outside their control, should just get sick and die? Without Obamacare I would be a zombie and on disability and welfare for the rest of my life. With Obamacare I am graduating from college in 5 days and am going to have a professional job and be a productive member of society. Which do you think is better?

      • Steve Greene says:

        It’s people’s own fault when they get sick. Always. They should just suck it up (and die if they have to). I shouldn’t have to pay for it. It’s not like we have a society or community or anything like that.

      • Jon K says:

        Dr Greene, I thank you for paying your taxes that allow me to get the medicine I need. I thank God we do live in a society that at least makes some effort to help people deal with unanticipated setbacks.

      • rgbact says:

        Thanks for showing your work. Its OK you support ACA, but you shouldn’t be doing factchecking, since you clearly have a bias, just like Politifact The ACA setup semi-public insurers, which gobbled up customers. from more knowledgeable private insurers with cheap prices….and then hoped to make it all back from the taxpayer. Now, because of Rubio, they’ve gone bankrupt. .

      • Jon K says:

        no that isn’t what happened at all
        it’s really a complicated mess
        if you want to understand what happened read

        America’s Bitter Pill: Money, Politics, Backroom Deals, and the Fight to Fix Our Broken Healthcare System

        http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Bitter-Pill-Politics-Healthcare-ebook/dp/B00LYXY05S

        but our aca isn’t government run insurance. i have blue cross. it is a private company. the issue has to do with setting up new marketplaces. they weren’t sure of what the customer base would eventually be. this meant they had to predict their best estimates. the government agreed to assist in this process of establishing what the proper premium costs would actually be. it hasn’t helped that the mandate penalties have had no teeth for the first few years of aca and therefore alot of healthy younger people are not participating. Once the market is stable this temporary program goes away. Rubio hasn’t done anything. The money is still owed to the insurance companies. It is all by design and is in no way a bail out or negative. In fact, the insurance companies will most likely be paying most of the payments via fees and taxes.

  3. Jon K says:

    and i feel plenty qualified to fact check politifact or any other article about the ACA. I’m pretty familiar with the legislative history, have followed it closely as it has been implemented, and was actually the first person in the entire state to successfully enroll in an Obamacare plan. (It took me 27 tries over 2 days. Then they released the info that one person – who lived in Raleigh – had successfully enrolled.) It’s complicated which is why it is easy for Rubio to use it the way he is, but that doesn’t make it true or honest.

    • Steve Greene says:

      I love that anecdote!

    • rgbact says:

      I’m beginning to think the whole ACA was setup for you. You’re the one. Lots of people with sky high deductibles….but at least you’ve saved some money. Good for you

      Yes, you have BCBS. That doesn’t mean that the other semi public insurers didn’t exist. Go check out their bankruptcy filings. So much for that money we owe them.

      The bottom line is. Rubio used rhetorical flourish to put his perspective on what happened. Liberals don’t like that. That doesn’t make it not true. Thats not what factcheckers are for.

      • rgbact says:

        Let me correct that. Politifact provides a good service, but their hatred of conservative rhetoric shines thru in their grading But at least they aren’t VOX

      • Jon K says:

        point out one semi-public insurer in this country other than tricare or medicare advantage.

    • Jon K says:

      you know what sucks about the young healthy people who aren’t participating in obamacare? if they are at the lower end of the income spectrum (12-25 k for single 20-40k for family) their insurance would cost them on the order of 50-100 a month with out of pocket maximums at 700-2000 and co-pay assistance as well that makes dr visits 5$ and specialists 10$. They are only hurting themselves by not signing up. Who knows when something unexpected is going to change everything?

  4. Jimmy Tarone says:

    Ah, the right wing, where “ROFLMAO” is a top rate intellectual argument.

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