Obamacare myths
July 18, 2012 11 Comments
The New York Times’ Bill Keller had a nice little piece debunking five “Obamacare” myths. Quite usefully, he particularly takes on the canards how Republicans would repeal health care reform:
THE UNFETTERED MARKETPLACE IS A BETTER SOLUTION. To the extent there is a profound difference of principle anywhere in this debate, it lies here. Conservatives contend that if you give consumers a voucher or a tax credit and set them loose in the marketplace they will do a better job than government at finding the services — schools, retirement portfolios, or in this case health insurance policies — that fit their needs.
I’m a pretty devout capitalist, and I see that in some cases individual responsibility helps contain wasteful spending on health care. If you have to share the cost of that extra M.R.I. or elective surgery, you’ll think hard about whether you really need it. But I’m deeply suspicious of the claim that a health care system dominated by powerful vested interests and mystifying in its complexity can be tamed by consumers who are strapped for time, often poor, sometimes uneducated, confused and afraid. [emphasis mine]
“Ten percent of the population accounts for 60 percent of the health outlays,” said Davis. “They are the very sick, and they are not really in a position to make cost-conscious choices.”
Exactly, you are not exactly going to comparison shop based on price when you have a broken arm or a serious liver disease. Also:
LEAVE IT TO THE STATES. THEY’LL FIX IT. The Republican alternative to Obamacare consists in large part of letting each state do its own thing. Presumably the best ideas will go viral.
States do have a long history of pioneering new ideas, sometimes enlightened (Oregon’s vote-by-mail comes to mind) and sometimes less benign (see Florida’s loopy gun laws). Obamacare actually underwrites pilot programs to reduce costs, and gives states freedom — some would argue too much freedom — in designing insurance-buying exchanges. But the best ideas don’t spread spontaneously. Some states are too poor to adopt worthwhile reforms. Some are intransigent, or held captive by lobbies.
You’ve heard a lot about the Massachusetts law. You may not have heard about the seven other states that passed laws requiring insurers to offer coverage to all. They were dismal failures because they failed to mandate that everyone, including the young and healthy, buy in. Massachusetts — fairly progressive, relatively affluent, with an abundance of health providers — included a mandate and became the successful exception. To expand that program beyond Massachusetts required … Barack Obama.
And, of course, he doesn’t even bring up the lowest common denominator of regulation example, i.e., all are credit card companies are incorporated in Delaware and South Dakota where they have bought the rights from those state legislators to completely screw us. There’s surely be a race to the bottom that would take advantage of many people by selling very poor and poorly regulated insurance across state lines.
You coming from a liberal side see only the government as a solution. The repubs wanted a health care savings account that was tax deferred, in other words not taxable. You can get up to 80% discount on medical fees, services, labs, xrays etc if you pay cash.
There is already a faith based initiative where they have their own coop plan that they contribute to for a reasonable fee and then the coop negotiates the fees down to a much lower rate.
The very poor already have free medical care by simply showing up at any emergency room and they have to by law treat them regardless of their ability to pay
You can get up to 80% discount on medical fees, services, labs, xrays etc if you pay cash.
40% discount for upfront cash payment. Uninsured poor “pay” full amount.
http://www.news-journal.com/features/answer_line/when-hospitals-can-t-deny-treatment/article_945bb225-6358-5c43-a655-780db5ff91c2.html
Medical group 30% discount on their webpage:
http://www.sjhmg.org/About-Us/Urgent-Care/Cash-Discount.aspx
Of course, if your bill is in tens of thousands, or up, if your battling just to keep the mortgage bill paid, or rent, it doesn’t matter if you get half off. Even if you are poor, I don’t believe the service you can get is free. It is billed and if you don’t pay, your credit is toast and the bills could force you into bankruptcy.
Some choose not to be treated and possibly die, rather then force their family into bankruptcy.
Cancer treatment out of reach – even with insurance:
http://www.catherine-morgan.com/2010/07/21/cancer-treatment-out-of-reach-even-with-health-insurance/
Denied: chemotherapy out of pocket
http://www.stuartschearcommunications.com/denied-the-crisis-of-america%E2%80%99s-uninsured/
I’ll point out again that the USA is the only first world country that Doctors Without Borders feels the need to visit. When they do, they tend to turn away people because of the sheer numbers, and some because they simply don’t have the infrastructure to treat them, and they can’t get treatment at any hospital.
“The very poor already have free medical care by simply showing up at any emergency room and they have to by law treat them regardless of their ability to pay”
First, I believe they get care for medical emergencies that constitute a threat to life or limb. That is a very big difference from “free medical care”. This means they get to wait until minor problems become life threatening. Heck of a way to run a healthcare system.
But even so:
And yet reports show hospital emergency waiting rooms have contained billing company employee’s who’s sole job is to get those people to leave or pay.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/business/debt-collector-is-faulted-for-tough-tactics-in-hospitals.html?pagewanted=all
http://healthland.time.com/2012/04/25/debt-collectors-in-the-e-r-and-delivery-room-is-profit-driven-medicine-at-a-breakpoint/
And yet reports state that people are routinely turned away for a whole host of problems including chemotherapy for cancer.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Cancer-patients-turned-away-from-hospital-20120312
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/cancer-patients-turned-away-again-1.1254809#.UAgrovWRN8E
http://whyy.org/cms/news/health-science/2010/03/03/lawsuit-uninsured-emergency-patient-turned-away/32349
And yet those hospitals who do treat uninsured walk ins are having increasing problems with overcrowding in emergency care rooms. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1726173/pdf/v020p00402.pdf
Hospitals want PPACA. (The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act )
And yet, providing care to patients who have let problems become an emergency is costly. It is the most costly method of giving medical care.
Allowing the problem is unethical if not immoral for a whole host of reasons, only a few of are mentioned here.
Covering the uninsured will cost money. It doesn’t matter if you call it a tax or wrap it up for political reasons and call it an apple dumpling. It will cost money. It is costing money right now for people to be treated in emergency care rooms. One way or another, Americans will pay.
Of course, the real Republican plan is simply to ignore the entire mess and let the poor continue to be uninsured and die. If it was up to Republicans, nothing would have changed. Those with pre-existing conditions would be refused coverage. The poor would have no coverage.
It seems the vast majority of Americans want the vast majority of benefits that accrue from “Obamacare”, but as always, no one wants to be rational and pay for it.
Just like tea partiers want Medicare and Social Security, but don’t want to pay for it.
“There is already a faith based initiative where they have their own coop plan that they contribute to for a reasonable fee and then the coop negotiates the fees down to a much lower rate.”
Clearly, this “faith based initiative” isn’t working. If it was, there wouldn’t be so many problems.
The problem Steve is stating is the problem IS the insurance companies. As long as the insurance companies are in the drivers seat, and they are, they are going to continue to increase rates and find ways to screw over people. Just like many of them have always done.
It’s well documented with plenty of ex insurance company employee’s and customers testifying in various venues.
Mike, we are in agrreement about one thing, insurance companies need to be reigned in and that is a pox on both houses of dems and repubs. People are treated for any presenting problem in the ER not just emergencies.
It is a states issue where they have indigent care funded by the states. Obama is trying to add trillions of dollars to the federal budget by making it a federal problem. It is not a federal problem but a states problem.
Now the repubs tried to get Obama to listen and his minions that they should allow competition across state lines. Insurance companies are guaranteed monopolies in their states which the repubs fight against. It was Obama who made a back room secret deal with the insurance companies to continue to allow the monopolies in the states.
It is also insurance driving up the cost of health care. The next time that you go to the doc ask about cash discounts and you will get up to an 80% discount. It drives the docs crazy as well. What also drives docs crazy is practicing defensive medicine because of their fear of being sued by malpractice attorneys.
Obama also did NOTHING to increase the enrollements of medical schools or starting new medical schools to take care of the 30 million additional people added to the rolls which GUARANTEES RATIONIING because there are not enough docs to go around. Already due to Medicaid and Medicare cuts docs are dropping patients from their practice. This of course makes Obama a lier because you can’t force a doc to accept any patients and Obama Knew that you can’t keep your doctor if you like him and the repubs warned about this but were entirely shut out by the dems
“What also drives docs crazy is practicing defensive medicine because of their fear of being sued by malpractice attorneys.”
Yes, I’ll agree with you on that one. This seems to be a problem systemic in the USA, it seems many people believe that they are entitled to sue for everything and anything for any reason and that there is always someone “at fault”. I suppose in law this might be true, but in the real world “stuff happens” and nothing is perfect. No airplane, no car, certainly not healthcare, certainly not people.
Oops
I noticed I left a South African link in there as a source. My bad.
Another few links:
AMA: Uninsured outcomes, a case study:
http://www.amsa.org/programs/barriers/case.pdf
Fox News: Uninsured cancer patients twice as likely to die:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317630,00.html
Medical care for non life threatening problems:
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/february/19/hospitals-demand-payment-upfront-from-er-patients.aspx
Pay or leave:
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/02/20/health/the-er-doctor-will-see-you-just-shell-out-150-first/
Uninsured burdening system, critics say they turn away uninsured:
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/08/business/fi-reddy8
Doctors blog and cancer patient: hospital refuse hysterectomy, radiation at University hospital for uninsured.
http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/cancer-v-the-constitution/
Texas plan for those who can’t get insurance ($700 a month), Hector gets Cancer in Texas:
http://www.gwumc.edu/aca/pdf/hectorgonzalez.pdf
400 turned away from Texas hospital daily:
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2012/June/21/houston-texas-uninsured.aspx?p=1
Chemo therapy denied (unknown reason, money or age?)
http://lungcancer.healthunlocked.com/questions/179523/How-do-we-escape-our-neglectful-hospital
On another topic:
Kansas bill allows doctors to refuse Chemo treatment for pregnant cancer patients.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/09/1090094/-Kansas-bill-lets-doctors-deny-chemotherapy-to-pregnant-women
Lier lier pants on fire, this bill does not do this, the libtards claim that if it were taken to the extreme then docs could do this, not that it actaully does it, Furthermore it is the libtard trying to take away our freedom of religeon and freedom of conscience which takes us several steps closer to socialism and totalitarianism. I for one salute it, BTW chemotherapy would kill an unborn baby and I would not support it. that is like saying well I lost my job and can’t support my children any more so I will just kill them
I am accustomed to ad hominem arguments, falsehoods, and off-topic responses from John, but I don’t recall seeing so many misspellings or run-on sentences before. Is someone filling in for the Marriage Coach?
On another topic:
Kansas bill allows doctors to refuse Chemo treatment for pregnant cancer patients.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/09/1090094/-Kansas-bill-lets-doctors-deny-chemotherapy-to-pregnant-women
Oops I forgot to paste this into my response
Reply
And then it breaks down to name calling.
“which GUARANTEES RATIONIING”
Health care always has been rationed and always will be — under any plan that is ever devised.
Any finite resource is, by definition, rationed, as long as we have infinite demand. And until death is cured, we will have infinite demand for health care.